medicare, medicaid in particular. those things need to get resolved together. if we could actually develop a $4 trillion credible market credible plan that would cause everyone out there to say, wow, we can govern again. >> yeah. >> this debt crisis has been averted. the fiscal crisis been averted. we've got past all this. there's a lot of money on the sidelines that people are willing to invest. people like me just aren't hiring now because we're not confident they can do it. >> and that's i think the positive case. i guess my question for business leaders like yourself, you've worked with this president. you have been more of an ally of this white house. you know as well as i do a lot of your colleagues, fellow ceos, are really upset with this white house. is there a way for him to rebuild an alliance here with corporate america, to get some of these things done? >> of course there is. and if you take a look at what we've been able to do with our fix the debt campaign, the campaign to fix the debt, that's a group of ceos who have gotten together, an ad hoc gr